general discussion


sleeping warm


dropping or reducing some supplements and dietary items when viral or expecting viral exposure


the immune system anti-viral signalling compounds are oxidants


janets sambucol protocol


low dose naltrexone


flu's as biofilm


proteases amplify the infectivity of the flu virus


thank god for retinyl acetate, a form of vitamin A


extreme energy cost of fighting a new viral infection


mercury redistributed to the brain during a virus


pandemic flu


efficacy of masks


cfs, myalgic encephalomyelitis


marshall protocol


co-circulation of multiple clade variants


why fish oil may be so strongly promoting of viral infection


sun on skin breaking viral and parasitical stealth


shingles


preferability of homeschooling


norovirus


 

GENERAL DISCUSSION



since about 1995, but particularly since about 2003, the world has developed into a viral holocast with severe immune impairment becoming the norm and people acting as year round chronic viral shedders and also asian travellers funneling fuel into the flame so to speak


new flu strains emerge annually from se asia, china and the tropics, which are then bused to the temperate zones by cruise ships and airplanes


except for this busing, these viruses would die away each summer in the temperate zones since these viruses are not created there, but now seem to be perpetually renewed by travellers seeding their foul cargo


the 2010 mid to late october seasonal transistion in the usa seems to have inducted some shocking viruses worldwide, it's very helpful to develop an eye for these often only semi-visible viruses because they really fuck the brain and gut !


i don't think the flu vaccine is keeping up with the rate of haemagglutinin mutation and virus transmission


“It is thought that places in Southeast Asia, where humans and animals live in close proximity, might be the permanent melting pot where viruses continually circulate and exchange genetic information”


this infection level was not around when i was a kid, flu's were unusual and when people were ill they had the decency to keep themselves isolated, now they load themselves with symptom suppressors and make shop assistants the  spawn of hell


it's a new chronic stress and has spelt the end of the school system with it's viral incubation characteristics and general infectivity


different viruses represent a continuim of permanent genetic damage, cold viruses are the least damaging, replicating in the cell cytoplasm, flu viruses are more damaging replicating in the nucleus but not interfering with the dna, and retroviruses are the most damaging since the viruses code is inserted into the host dna


rhinoviruses (about 30% of cold viruses) optimally replicate at 33-35C and replicate well in the nasal mucosa and may be limited in the lower respiratory track by the higher temperatures there.


social isolation caused white blood cells to  activate  a gene program called the  “ conserved transcriptional response to adversity ” ,  which increases inflammation and  decreases antiviral gene expression


___________________



one of the problems with the BCD™ and the compendium™ is the greatly improved health gives a sort of charisma that attracts the sick flies around who still don't like to do a thing to help themselves but just hang around by force of the attraction


physical isolation and more use of the internet to communicate is a necessary strategy


interestingly the flu virus causes people to at least double the number of their social contacts at the time of peak transmissibility


___________________



manganese is anti-viral, but chromium is pro-viral


chromium may be feeding the viruses sugar or energy they are able to access through the cell


if taking manganese with retinyl acetate, take the manganese a bit away from the retinyl acetate as it is a bit destructive on other supplements


___________________



interferon promotes yeast killing neutrophils, interferon promoting supplements like vitamin A and germanium will therefore be anti yeast/fungal.


vitamin A, vitamin K2 and germanium are very good for defeating or protecting against flu and those sorts of viruses !


_______________________



my post to janet (feb 2007):


the immune system killing its own antibacterial fighting white blood cells, to get at viruses, seems to be a major mechanism


also there is a glucocorticoid induced suppression of the immune system with flu's because of the risk of immune response induced injury with the inflammatory ramp of a co-viral infection  study


school is killing your kids, its that simple, must be one toxic little school, you only get given so much leeway, if you contine the damage will be more substantial and permanent


janet replies:


I finally get the point that the whole reason we are needing this strep protocol (yasko ed.) in the first place is because Cody is being challenged by viruses non-stop at school and this goes back to the study where the immune system lets bacteria get hold after viral infection. The strep throat didn't seem to start being a problem till he went to school. He was doing excellent till he went to school. For the rest of this school year, we will be fighting similar battles for his health.


______________________



cats can be a very powerful immune system disruptor, just flood the body with very distracting antigens


in addition cats have an allergen in their siliva that gets licked onto thier coats and which then get shed from the coat continuously


i would imagine that dogs also shed immune system disruptors, maybe not to the same extent as cats


_____________



anyone on steriods is a dynamite viral shedder


its actually a lot of old people now


laura (usa) writes: I would guess a good 70% of the population is on some type of steroid


______________



all the current anti-viral drugs seem to have severe adverse side effects and "a side effect is an effect"


i think adequate anti-viral effectiveness can be got with retinyl acetate, beta carotene, germanium, mycel a, manganese, no fenol, vit e, copper


______________



a who knows post titled "anti viral strategies" 20th july 06



went to town yesterday and it was very viral


lots of coughing and hacking and quite busy at the time i went


nice walk on the beach just past dusk though, finally figured out what afterglow was with the sun being set but the ethereal orange and purple sky was reflected on the water with orange mainly but suprisingly light for a while, little breakers and no wind, quite enjoyable


supermarket peak times are bad for viral exposure will try to avoid that 3.30 to 5 .30 rush


i do seem to be reasonably ok this morning despite taking fish oil before going and doing the lamp on the morning of the day before


before going i took some mycel a which seems to act a bit slower than retinyl acetate


and some germanium and manganese in town


and went to town on a very dry day, dampness seems to induct more viral profusion from people !


when i came back i took some retinyl acetate and betacarotene


thinking about it, what i figured is that eating a meal would confuse the immune system with the massively allergenic event called digestion


so i skipped dinner, only had some warmed water with freshly squeezed lemon juice in (heated to 75C to pasturise the lemon juice)


and went to bed early as lying down really releases energy for the mito to fight viruses


milk products would have been bad for confusing the immune system so i was careful to avoid milk products last night


i think vit a levels build up to provide more viral protection, i find the limit for me is it makes me migrainey, but i am susceptible to migraines


_______________________________



a who_knows thread titled 'Retinyl Acetate & Carotene ' (august 06)



my reply:


i have found i am creeping up on the retinyl acetate  amounts i am taking


it's not clear to me whether viruses actually 'consume' retinyl acetate but vitamin A is toxic by contact to viruses


so i think there is consumption of retinyl acetate when viral, to what extent the immune system and to what extent directly by viruses i don't know


but when i got a bad exposure going to town last thursday from stupidly going into the chemist and encounteringa viral shedder, i may have taken 1/2 an airline spoon which could be as much as 80,000 - 100,000iu  or  higher


it may be that with the vitamin E i can take higher amounts of retinyl acetate without getting a headache


be careful about keeping the retinyl acetate dry with a dried dessicant


i just take a whole dunaliella carotene, chew the capsule around a bit in the mouth to get the contents out and spit the capsule out which may be unnecessary, just getting paraniod about mad cow disease in the gelatin


my airline spoon seems to be between 1/4 and 1/3 of a teaspoon, maybe i took 200,000iu when i used 1/2 and airline spoon or maybe the powder has lost some potency


but you can tell if it works, within several hours you feel the virus go (not necessarily permanently though)


i really don't think in terms of a daily dose, i just aim to snuff a virus if have been exposed or get one


i think actually its quite important not to give it like a daily supplement, but save it for when its needed so that you can give higher doses without exceeding a weekly 'iu' budget



J. writes


I really like the retinyl acetate so far. For several days I've just been a little "off feeling", but some time after taking the retinyl acetate and carotene this afternoon, I really began to perk up. I didn't have a full headache, but feeling like the start of one and it is gone. I took some more tonight because I almost craved more plus I had ran to see my dad who's been really unwell lately. Good stuff. So, you don't take retinyl acetate daily. What about when school starts- every day is viral exposure. On Saturdays we have one side of the family's weekly gathering and on Sundays- church and the other side does lunch, but I'm the antisocial one so I get out of that as much as possible. I just have to get through 1 year of school and am dreading it. Do you use the carotene only with the retinyl acetate or daily?


my reply


yeah that 'off feeling' lol


the next step is you will recognise different viruses by their different effects


old people become bad shedders unfortunately


cold and flu viruses infect the lungs, gastrointestinal tract, brain and central nervous system, heart, immune system and organs, and in some cases can cross the placenta


the basic issue with viruses is not simply making you below par for a while but each and every virus you get damages the dna and its cumulative


EACH VIRUS AGES YOU PERMANENTLY, PARTICULARLY THE BRAIN AND HEART, THOUGH DIFFERENT VIRUSES HAVE DIFFERENT INTENSITIES IN THIS RESPECT


your kids could get irrepairably VIRALLY damaged by just one year of school, not to mention yourself


theres no justice except surviving


btw the lemmings running over the cliff don't take that kindly to those leemings that don't want to be part of it


sometimes i take dunaliella carotene by itself, some times only with retinyl acetate


_____________________



you will have to start re-educating relatives and aquantinances about not dropping by if they are viral, people used to quarantine themselves once, now they have no idea.


interestingly viruses can drive more social behavior to facilitate thier spreading and this is really scary, people get viral and seek you out because they are viral


_____________________



identifying a virus coming on and lying down, even if only for half an hour gives the body a huge amount of energy extra to fight the virus.


________________________



anything religious is generally quite viral because it's attractive to those on a social type of autistic spectrum looking for rules for life and are not too "cognitively fussy"


sunday schools in the usa will be especially bad with thier hyper vaccinated /damaged children and parental traiting.


gun shops and health food/supplement stores are bad for exposure to viral shedders


________________________



pyschiatric issues are a symptom of viralness


immune cells do a dual role, also being used in brain function  study


no wonder immune system issues and infection are so directly destructive of the brain


actually i wonder if its evolutionarily programed into us to discard and distance family and friends with pyschiatric issues pretty quickly since thats what seems to happen


so that viral exposure is reduced


nurses in pyschiatric wards are particularly affected/wrecked by this contact


________________________



basically christmas is a viral time of year and not good to travel or holiday on and relatives unfortunately can be a viral trap  : o (




--------------------------------------------------


 

SLEEPING WARM



sleeping air temperatures very important as an anti-viral


there is a broad, multi-pathogen targeting, immune defense pathway in the genes [heat shock transcription factor-1 (HSF-1)] activated by higher temperatures or heat shock


so when you sleep at 31C/88F you are getting the benefit of this pathway while sleeping and especially in the nasal passages, throat and lungs because the air is warm


you actually need a cheap thermometer permanently at bed height to see what it is, if you have virus you need 29C/84F or higher and if its above your sweat point you need to wear something that wicks sweat like polypropylene thermal underwear, full length cotton pyjamas hold too much water.


consistent sweating loses iodine which need supplementing as per 'iodine' in the compendium index


also sweat depletes potassium which you will notice by a craving for fruit


however when badly viral its necessary to go above the sweating point


phagocytosis oscillates with the body's circadian rhythm and is strongest during sleeping for fruit flies  study,  sleeping warm would give a double whammy effect against viruses, bacteria and other pathogens.


watch out for antimony used as a flame retardant in beds and bedware in the usa, its toxic.


the generation and differentiation of a particular kind of lymphocyte, known as a CD8+ cytotoxic T-cell (capable of destroying virus-infected cells and tumor cells) is enhanced by mild fever-range hyperthermia    study


separate  beds  : o)



-------------------



eileen writes in a thread titled 'winter prevention'



Well I know what I'm abouts to add is very basic and therefore will probably be thought of as stating the obvious but anyway....



I used to sleep in a bedroom I thought of as warm enough as it wasn't cold or even cool but... This winter just gone I taped some plastic sheeting over the air vent situated at the top of one wall in my bedroom/computer room and toilet, Moved a small oil filled electric heater into the bedroom and use it at night



Also been putting the electric blanket on low sooner than I used to to ensure bedding is not cold or damp, (do not sleep with an AC electric blanket going though, the magnetic fields are significant ed.)



Wearing long johns to bed with socks... Lol Which I hate as I feel restricted if I wear clothing to bed but it's also helped a lot.



Not walking in the really cold air in very early morn (My favourite time is dawn) or evening at sunset.



These things have really made quite a difference to not only shortening the duration of a virus but also even getting one from the cooler air entering my lungs I presume.




--------------------------------------------------


 

DROPPING OR REDUCING SOME SUPPLEMENTS AND DIETARY ITEMS WHEN VIRAL OR EXPECTING VIRAL EXPOSURE



vitamin d and fish oil can be extremely significant down regulators of the anti-viral immune system


i think we have been so starved of these nutrients during gestation and the early years that all our receptors for them are upregulated so we are very sensitive to quite small amounts


a bit of a bind, we need the bulk omega three efa's in fish oil, but the receptor up regulation makes the immune supression a hazard


it's a hazard anyway since fish oil is an anti-inflamatory and part of this anti-inflamation is inhibiting anti-viral immune function


DHA is a rate limiting lipid for the making of the envelope of some viruses, so taking fish oil can be exactly what some virus population's are needing too exponentially grow


if you are expecting to be exposed to viruses like my weekly trip to town, it does not pay to take fish oil or oral vitamin d or do uvb that day


suprisingly this extends to good quality smoked, and i presume fresh salmon which can have very high DHA levels, i need to keep any i eat well away from viral exposure, and only eat a small amount


dosing on anti-virals like germanium, vitami  A and vitami  K2 does not completely compensate enough for the extra deficit of viral promotion from say 1000mg fish oil


_______________



the amount of lithium taken needs modulating too, that's quite hard one to work out since it promotes serotonin which is an immune system regulating signal compound, but it is anti-thyroidal


it pays to cut back the lithium right back when viral but not completely, you will find a balance point just above too low seratonin from not enough lithium


i think too much lithium is pro-viral


when you are severely viral the body naturally produces more melatonin


_________________



milk needs to be drunk at least an hour and a half before bed and milk earlyish in the morning seems a problem. felt really cranky the next morning after drinking milk close to bed, maybe it really does disrupt the immune system? digestion of milk releases immune system confusing peptides?




--------------------------------------------------


 

THE IMMUNE SYSTEM ANTI-VIRAL SIGNALLING COMPOUNDS ARE OXIDANTS



this seems odd but the main signalling compounds in the immune system are oxidants like hydrogen peroxide and nitric oxide


so msm being an oxidant promotes anti-viral signalling within the immune system and vitamin C being an anti-oxidant can work against that a bit, so don't have too much vitamin C and take a bit of msm when viral or expecting exposure


i find a little bit of vitamin C is ok and needed with a virus


interestingly research has shown that vitamin C is not effective against colds and by my reasoning in fact would even promote them, but people do use very high doses of vitamin C for viruses, they claim effectivity and this would be because very large doses of vitamin C are oxidising and it no longer acts as an anti-oxidant


i don't recommend large doses of vitamin C unless perhaps iv vitamin C for cancer as research seems to shows this has some positive effect but is outside my experience, it has to be iv vitamin C as ingested vitamin C rate limits below what is needed


the downside of msm is it affects sleep which may be offset by skin vitamin D; also as a mercury mobiliser, you can't take msm if you have amalgam fillings in




--------------------------------------------------


 

EXERCISE



the lymph system that brings the viruses into the lymph nodes where the body then acts on them and generates anti-virals, is a tube and fluid system


it actually needs a heart to pump it around, but evolution being what it is never goes beyond sufficiency and has relied on body movement to pump it around


our ancestors were constantly moving from dawn to dusk


not sitting in front of computers


exercise is best very soon after getting up to move the lymph after the stasis of being still all night for sleep


you need to move lymph early every morning


warming up, arms hanging loose at the side and taking it slowly when starting a jog is important


exercising inside, lifting the knees up, bends, star jumps, arm weights, they knew and did all this stuff back pre 1970's


as usual, 99.99% of these exercise people don't know what they are on about, like pilates is too rough on the joints


the basic rule of exersise is joints should never hurt


i find even just using 1 kg dumbbells with squats overloads the knees enough to make them sore, whereas not using dumbells doesn't


eileen's comment:


i have read the right kind of exercise does activate the immune system a bit, although too much of the wrong kind can suppress it funnily enough


________________________



deep breathing from exercise in cold air is not a good idea and enables rhinoviruses to successfully replicate in the lower respiratory track.


exersise first thing in the morning to get the lymph flowing after a night's no movement with sleep is important


when i was at boarding school we always had cold showers on awakening, and i remember boarding school as very non viral


schopenhauer used to have cold baths (before breakfast?) right up until until he died, there is something to this moving lymph around


my sister is a keen horse woman and i think the riding does her lymph movement good


the rationale for aerobics will be immune stimulation


_____________



i am trying to do movements that stretch and stimulate the vagus nerve through the day, as well as move lymph


that means trunk movements


really gone off pilates as too hard on the joints


the vagus nerve is worth googling and also on wikipedia


stimulating the vagus nerve can down regulate inflamation


"The vagus nerve is located in the brainstem and snakes down from the brain to the heart and on through to the abdomen"




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JANET'S SAMBUCOL PROTOCOL



Janet writes:


I use the powder form. 1 scoop of germanium for every scoop or two of retinyl acetate.
My latest greatest concoction that has been kicking butt on viruses and making me feel fantastic-


2 tsp sugar free Sambucol
2 tiny spoon scoops retinyl acetate
1 tiny spoon scoop germanium


Using this for a week or two, every other day or two at bedtime, and a wart on my knee that was a cosmetic nuisance for several years has almost disappeared. Very clear thinking and feeling.


(25 of my tiny spoons = 1/4 tsp retinyl acetate, which makes 1 full scoop of my tiny spoon have about 18,000 IU)



a later writing by janet re another virus:


It took one more dose of sambucol - 3 tsp- yesterday w/ 2 scoops retinyl acetate & 1 scoop germanium plus early bedtime w/ a sliver of melatonin, a great night's sleep and today back to feeling fine.



an update by janet:


Last time, the HFS was out of sambucol so I got some SambuGuard by Dr Dunner which seemed to work just as well and possibly even a bit faster on my daughter who had a sniffy nose and earache. It has echinacea and a bit of vit C in it and you have to use more of it though.



my comment:


powders need to have refreshed dessicants in, in damp weather, changed as often as two weeks.



-------



janet's reply to my raising the possibility of her taking too much germanium:


Usually we take about 1/16 tsp once a week or so.


But, between today and last night, I took that amount 4 times(fighting a mild gi virus - should've known I was coming down with something as I was REALLY out of sorts yesterday and went to HFS and grocery store day before which was full of people not feeling well)


I have the powdered nutricology germanium which is 275 mg per 1/8 tsp.


So that's 550 mg I took in 24 hrs.


Interesting on the dizzy feeling, been having that today, but thought it to be the virus. Maybe it IS the extra germanium, will cut it out for now and just do another retinyl acetate dose tonight to make sure the virus is fully kicked.


(Seems to be mostly gone w/ the retinyl acetate, germanium & sambucol plus water w/ 10 drops of oxydrops every few hours and feel much better this afternoon and evening.)


I had thought to put germanium in daily since I know lead is an issue for me from all my childhood exposure, but maybe that's not a good idea.


I think I could move it from once a week to twice though.



-------



more weights and measures from janet


Here are my calculations for retinyl acetate. Since I was fresh out of airline spoons, I had to use the pointy ended/scoop looking part of a straw that came in a sippy cup for my tiny measurement purposes. Once you use retinyl acetate for a virus and feel how quickly it works, you will never want to be without it again! However, it works in varying degrees for different type viruses and sometimes you still need some antibacterial herbals or even antibiotics. What you've been describing as your symptoms sounds similar to what I had a couple weeks back and it took a lot of goldenseal & oreganol to finally knock it out. My dad required antibiotics for the same thing.


1 gram = 533,000 IU (ed. 500,000 iu per gram)
1 TBSP= 10 grams
1 TBSP = 5,330,000 IU
divide by 3
1 tsp = 1,776,666.67 IU
divide by 4
1/4 tsp = 444,166.67 IU
divide by 25
one of my tiny scoops = 17,766 IU




--------------------------------------------------


 

LDN



all i have seen about ldn indicates it is a anti-viral immune system inhibitor (promotes viruses) and brain growth promoter


it may have some utility for multiple sclerosis and post-menopausal female brains, but its effect is too unbalanced to be useful, especially in todays highly contagious viral climate


jaqueline mccandless's semi-clinical study on ldn gave very mixed results which confirms my view of it as too unbalanced in its effect on modulating the immune system


oddly she is the only person i have seen who seems to have done well on it


http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism_LDN/




--------------------------------------------------


 

FLU'S AS BIOFILM



influenza 'A' viruses, 'A' for avian, they really kept quiet about that one


but flu's look like biofilm synergies and the virulence of the bird flu and the 1918 flu is over-promotion of the  pneumonia causing  bacteria partners via the PB1-F2 protein produced by type A flu viruses amongst other factors


possible benefits to the virus include enhanced intial infectivity and since flu's don't seem to be that stealthy, promoting pneumonial bacteria is going to force the immune system to split its resources leading to much less available to fight the virus


i find fasting helpful if i get a bad flu and it has the additional benefit of revamping the immune system !


when fasting i will put a bit of jam in boiling water so that occasionally drinking it also coats the stomach with a bit of sugar as if the stomach is empty, protein digesting bacteria will run riot and attack the stomach wall !



--------------------------------------------------


 

PROTEASES AMPLIFY THE INFECTIVITY OF THE FLU VIRUS



i am still working on this but have always been suspicous of supplement enzymes containing proteases promoting flu and cold? virus infectivity, especially high protease types


i also took a pep last night to help digest a collogen broth drunk to close to bed and i do think it is a bit promoting of viruses especially with new expsoure, but mightn't be a huge effect, just a factor that needs to be taken into consideration and some modualtion of taking the pep agiasnt viralness or viral expsoure


now flu's have a glycoprotein on the surface called Hemagglutinin that binds to the types of cell it is able to infect and it is activated by extracellular proteases, i can remember reading a figure of improved infectivity of 22,000 by a flu virus in the presence of a suitable protease


this also ties in with lung biofilm, and flu viruses make a specific protein (PB1-F2) that promotes bacteria in the lungs (and probably also affects the bowels)


what the bacteria does in return is provide extracelluar proteases that greatly facilitate the infectivity of the virus via modifying or 'unpacking' Hemagglutinin and/or fusing the virus envelope to the host cell endosomal membrane


more pathogenic flu's are able to utilise more types of proteases


so reducing the amount of protease enzymes used may be part of an anti viral strategy and also collagenous broths or gelatine broths may inhibit the dpp-iv protease and thus the famous 'chicken soup' may actually be having an anti- viral effect through this mechanism


taking protease enzymes before a meal would likely make more cross into the blood and available for promoting Hemagglutinin infectivity


pneumonia causing bacteria may be especially proficient at promoting Hemagglutinin aka the 1918 flu


i am still uncertain on the practial effect of supplement enzymes in relation to this


Hemagglutinin is also interesting in that it causes red blood cells to clump together which may be partly repsonsible for heart and cardiovascular difficulties with a flu virus and also the dreaded migrainy feeling


the german (google translation) and english wikipedia entries on Hemagglutinin are useful



--------------------------------------------------

 

THANK GOD FOR RETINYL ACETATE



bad virus going around here, wet and damp, took a swag 300,000iu? of retinyl acetate about 5 am after a teaspoon of heavy cream and am feeling much better this morning


also exercise needs to be cut back to stretch movements really and no significant aerobics when viral


funny how one's perception of hot and cold varies when viral, same temp, feel cold when viral and warm when not viral


its really noticable how one gets dragged down here with continual damp weather, ok for the first day or so then its downhill


i wonder if sweat staying on the body actually cools it too much


note   (later),  i have switched back to using vitamin A as  per,  while retinyl acetate may be in a class of it's own, it's too hard to get and retinyl palmitate does the job well enough !



--------------------------------------------------

 

HIGH ENERGY COST OF FIGHTING A NEW VIRAL INFECTION - T CELLS DOWN-REGULATE FOR A CHRONIC INFECTION



when you have a virus you need to be cautious of energy expenditures and that would include minimising energy consuming exercise, but some lymph movement exercises would be good


___________



"In the first week of an immune response to a virus, T cells can divide every four to six hours, as fast as any other mammalian cell at any time during development," Wherry says. "In terms of their rate of division, T cells are in the same category as cells in the earliest stages of embryonic development. The energy involved in doing this is extraordinary, and the body can't keep that up for an extended period of time."


___________



A new study of immune cells battling a chronic viral infection shows that the cells, called T cells, become exhausted by the fight in specific ways, undergoing profound changes that make them progressively less effective over time.


The findings also point to interventions that would reverse the changes, suggesting that novel therapies could be developed to reinvigorate T cells that become depleted in their struggle against a virus. Alternatively, strategies that would intentionally trigger the immune-dampening mechanisms explored in the study could prove useful in countering autoimmune disorders in which the immune system is inappropriately activated.


Although the experiments were conducted in mice, the problem of T- cell exhaustion has also been identified in HIV, hepatitis B, and hepatitis C infections in humans, as well as some cancers, such as melanoma. A report on the study results appears in the current issue of Immunity, published online October 18th 2007.


"We knew that T cells responding to chronic infections become progressively compromised in many of their functional properties," says E. John Wherry, Ph.D., an assistant professor in the Immunology Program at The Wistar Institute and lead author on the Immunity study. "Put simply, the T cells become exhausted as time passes. What we wanted to learn in our study was what the specific problems were with these cells and whether their depleted state could be reversed."


Using a technique called gene-expression profiling, Wherry and his colleagues identified 490 genes whose activity in T cells is altered during a chronic viral infection. Closer study at different time points using a 22-gene subset of the larger group of genes provided molecular signatures of progressive T-cell exhaustion. Only a few changes in the activity of the 22 genes were seen at the end of the first week of infection, increasing to 9 differences at two weeks, 18 differences at one month, and 21 differences at two months. At the end of two months, T cells contending with a chronic infection were sluggish metabolically and immunologically unresponsive to stimulus.


One gene identified as playing a central role in this process is called PD-1, which codes for an inhibitory receptor on the surface of the T cells. By blocking PD-1 in vivo, the researchers found they could alleviate T-cell exhaustion, get more functional T cells, and control the infection better.


"Blocking this one pathway partially reverses T-cell exhaustion in some settings, suggesting that we may be able to intervene to reinvigorate depleted immune cells," says Wherry. "The T cells undergo many changes during chronic infections, however, so that it will be important to learn how to treat them for multiple problems."


Wherry notes that the mechanisms involved in T-cell exhaustion also have important upsides.


"The flip side of this process is that the immune system has developed an effective way to turn off its response to a stimulus – which is exactly what one wants to do in the case of autoimmunity," he says.


He points out, too, that the energy outlay during the acute phase of the immune system's response to an infection is enormous – and fundamentally unsustainable.


"In the first week of an immune response to a virus, T cells can divide every four to six hours, as fast as any other mammalian cell at any time during development," Wherry says. "In terms of their rate of division, T cells are in the same category as cells in the earliest stages of embryonic development. The energy involved in doing this is extraordinary, and the body can't keep that up for an extended period of time."



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MERCURY REDISTRIBUTED TO THE BRAIN DURING A VIRUS



the tissue uptake of mercury is changed during the course of a common viral infection in mice


the maximum decrease, in comparison with non-infected mice, occurred in the intestine on day 9 after the infection and in serum on day 6.


However, in the brain, Hg  increased  by 52% on day 6



--------------------------------------------------

 

PANDEMIC FLU



"The Spanish flu outbreak of 1918 killed between 30 and 50 million people. In the infected patients, the ultimate cause of death was acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS). This fatal condition is a massive reaction of the body during which the lung becomes severely damaged. ARDS can be induced by various bacterial and viral infections, but also by chemical agents. These could be toxic gases that are inhaled or gastric acid when aspirated. Once ARDS has developed, survival rates drop dramatically. Among patients infected with H5N1 bird flu, about 50 percent die of ARDS."


"oxidative stress is the common trigger that ultimately leads to lung failure"


"Microbial or chemical lung pathogens trigger the oxidative stress machinery. Oxidation products are intrepreted as danger-signals by the 'toll-like receptor' receptor TLR4. Subsequently, the body’s innate immune system is activated. This defense machinery in turn leads to a chain of reactions with severe and often fatal lung damage as a consequence."  study


______________



might be a similar mechanism involved in ibs, chrons etc.


the oxidative stress might be in part an immune system attempt to kill the infection source


there was a study showing that vit E and A and carotenes seemed to reduce life span and the reasoning was they reduced free radicals and hence oxidative stress too much


therefore these may be useful in preventing the lung damage characteristic of acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS)



______________



interestingly an analysis of napoleons hair and his son and first wife show arsenic levels 40 times todays average which was in dyes, medicines, paints tapestry and food preservation then


i suspect high arsenic was also prevelant in 1918 and the 1918 flu was a combination of an immune supression very typical of high arsenic as well as an extremely full complement of virulence factors


______________



“Some genetic markers of influenza infection severity have been identified from past outbreaks. Researchers have failed to find most of these markers, in samples of the current (2009) swine-flu strain.


Jonathan Allen and Tom Slezak from Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, America, published their analysis identifying 34 conserved amino acid markers from past pandemic flu strains two weeks ago.


They have since studied sequences from the new virus and found that only about half of their 34 markers are present. Slezak said, "This lack of similarity does not necessarily mean that the current H1N1 virus is not going to be a major problem, but it does suggest that it lacks many of the attributes that have made previous outbreaks deadly”.


______________



“Scientists link influenza A (H1N1) susceptibility to common levels of arsenic exposure



The ability to mount an immune response to influenza A (H1N1) infection is significantly compromised by a low level of arsenic exposure that commonly occurs through drinking contaminated well water


When a normal person or mouse is infected with the flu, they immediately develop an immune response, in which immune cells rush to the lungs and produce chemicals that help fight the infection. However, in mice that had ingested 100 ppb (parts per billion) arsenic in their drinking water for five weeks, the immune response to H1N1 infection was initially feeble, and when a response finally did kick in days later, it was "too robust and too late," There was a massive infiltration of immune cells to the lungs and a massive inflammatory response, which led to bleeding and damage in the lung." Morbidity over the course of the infection was significantly higher for the arsenic-exposed animals than the normal animals.


Respiratory infections with influenza A virus are a worldwide health concern and are responsible for 36,000 deaths annually. The recent outbreak of the influenza A H1N1 substrain ("swine flu") which is the same virus that Hamilton (MBL's Bay Paul Center) and his colleagues used in their arsenic study to date has killed 72 people in Mexico and 6 in the United States.


"One thing that did strike us, when we heard about the recent H1N1 outbreak, is Mexico has large areas of very high arsenic in their well water, including the areas where the flu first cropped up. We don't know that the Mexicans who got the flu were drinking high levels of arsenic, but it's an intriguing notion that this may have contributed," Hamilton says.


The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency considers 10 ppb arsenic in drinking water "safe," yet concentrations of 100 ppb and higher are commonly found in well water in regions where arsenic is geologically abundant, including upper New England (Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine), Florida, and large parts of the Upper Midwest, the Southwest, and the Rocky Mountains, Hamilton says.


Arsenic does not accumulate in the body over a lifetime, as do other toxic metals such as lead, cadmium, and mercury. "Arsenic goes right through us like table salt," Hamilton says. "We believe for arsenic to have health consequences, it requires exposure day after day, year after year, such as through drinking water."


Arsenic exposure not only disrupts the innate immune system, as the present study shows, it also disrupts the endocrine (hormonal) system in an unusually broad way, which Hamilton's laboratory discovered and first reported in 1998.


"Most chemicals that disrupt hormone pathways target just one, such as the estrogen pathway," he says. "But arsenic disrupts the pathways of all five steroid hormone receptors (estrogen, testosterone, progesterone, glucocorticoids, and mineralocorticoids), as well as several other hormone pathways. You can imagine that just this one effect could play a role in cancer, diabetes, heart disease, reproductive and developmental disorders–all the diseases that have a strong hormonal component."


At this point, Hamilton thinks arsenic disrupts the innate immune system and the endocrine system through different mechanisms. "Arsenic may ultimately be doing a similar thing inside the cell to make these effects happen, but the targets are likely different," he says. The proteins that mediate hormone response are different than the proteins that mediate the immune response. "We don't yet know how arsenic disrupts either system at the molecular level. But once we know how it affects one system, we will have a pretty good idea of how it affects the other systems as well."


Presently, Hamilton's lab is focused on understanding the unusual "biphasic" effect that arsenic has on the endocrine system. At very low doses, arsenic stimulates or enhances hormone responses, while at slightly higher doses (still within the range found in drinking water), it suppresses these same hormone responses.


"Why we see that dramatic shift (from hormone enhancement to suppression) over such a narrow dose range is quite fascinating and totally unknown," Hamilton says. "Our principal focus is to figure out this switch. We think that will help us understand why arsenic does what it does in the body."



______________



the H1N1 swine flu virus of 2009 has bird and human flu genes, not just pig genes  study


some people over 60 seem to have an antibody response to this flu which means they must have been exposed to a similar flu before, but just about everyone has a cytotoxic T-cell memory for this flu from the similarity of some of this swine flu's genes to other more regular flu's


the main damage from this flu, since this flu is in fact relatively mild, has been those who took antiviral drugs, which should never have been pushed the way they were by the public health authorites, being known to have potentially severe side effects


but as usual they have no liability and can do as much harm as they like without consequence or even being held accountable since the smarmy press just bends over backwards to excuse them


interestingly its not just commonality of the bodies own proteins with virus antigens that causes autoimmune responses but the joined antibody - antigen molecule can be malign


in the  study  quoted below, it is argued that the elderly were less affected by the so called 2009 H1N1 pandemic because they had been exposed to the virus before in the 50's, but the middle aged had no such exposure, rather exposure to related viruses which had created antibodies that were actvivated by the H1N1 infection but gave a skewed and malappropriate immune response !


“ middle-aged patients had antibodies that bound less effectively to this H1N1 strain than did the antibodies of elderly people, and therefore did not protect against it. And the antibodies of extremely ill individuals also bound less well to the virus than did those of mildly sick patients. These dysfunctional antibodies attached to the flu pathogens and formed complexes that infiltrated the lungs and triggered a biochemical pathway that promotes inflammation and can cause cell membranes to rupture. It was this process that damaged tissue in the patients who died. ”



______________



the  hemagglutinin  type of the first influenza A infection you have, locks you into an imprinted immune response, 1968 seems to divide between a preponderance of group one (H1,H2;H5) and group two(H3;H7) influenza, so depending on your infection history and years lived as a child, you will be more resistant to certain types of influenza and i think being born before 1968 gives an immunity response  that doesn't fit so well  with the strains occurring now !



--------------------------------------------------

 

EFFICACY OF MASKS



“What we found was that the N95 masks were more protective against ... clinical respiratory illness and laboratory-proven viral infections, but the surgical masks were not.”


Monitoring after four weeks showed almost 10 per cent of the workers who wore no face masks fell ill, while for those who wore surgical masks the rate was almost seven per cent.


For those who wore the N95 masks, the illness rate was about four per cent.


A N95 respirator looks similar to a surgical mask though it fits tightly to the face, and it has thicker mesh designed to filter 95 per cent of particles from the air.


professor macintyre (university of nsw) winter 2008/9 study in china



--------------------------------------------------

 

CFS, MYALGIC ENCEPHALOMYELITIS



the way i am reading it is that cfs is in a major part due to background viruses being allowed to step out of the background for what ever reason - a new infection of some sort (Lyme disease, Q fever, Ross River virus, parvovirus, mononucleosis), heavy metals, biofilm, excessive exercise etc


therefore the anti-viral portion of the compendium should be of use;  retinyl acetate  ("mycell vitamin A" if you can't get retinyl acetate , but retinyl acetate is way the best ),   the vrp.com germanium sesquioxide, msm, k2


“Under the most widely used case definition, a diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome requires six months of unexplained fatigue as well as four of eight other persistent symptoms: impaired memory and concentration, sore throat, tender lymph nodes, muscle pain, joint pain, headaches, disturbed sleeping patterns and feelings of malaise after exertion.”


“Dr. Montoya said some cases of the syndrome were caused when an acute infection set off a recurrence of latent infections of Epstein Barr virus and HHV-6, two pathogens that most people are exposed to in childhood.”


____________________________



some causes of CFS may be contagious


the XMRV study below used peripheral blood mononuclear cells that were derived from patients from the outbreak of chronic fatigue syndrome at Incline village at the northern border of Lake Tahoe, United States (1984-5).


"Only 3.7% of the studied healthy controls harbored this XMRV infection. Later the researchers have reported up to 67% of patients test positive with antibody testing."


XMRV belongs to the group of gammaretroviruses and has previously been associated with prostate cancer. Little is known about most types of human retroviruses, aside from the best known one: HIV.


dr judy mikovits, who led the study, said: "it's a blood borne pathogen that we contract through body fluids and blood transmission.



      bbc link        link



i do remember years ago reading on the web a doctor who had some cfs patients saying he got cfs


and in new zealand its known as  tapanui flu  because of an outbreak in tapanui


XMRV may only be associated with CFS outbreaks and not sporadic CFS  article



--------------------------------------------------

 

MARSHALL PROTOCOL



i do not agree with the marshall protocol at all, its proponents are the usual brain damaged 'over-simple problem definition and solution' schizophrenics and cultists with more than a heft of iodine deficiency induced intellectual impairment


however, having said that, vitamin d supplementation is not simple and can be virally promoting and some people do benefit with the marshall protocol, it's just you can get much better results aka the compendium and the BCD since they address the receptor problems and hormone turnover issues which are at the heart of the problem


it may be that people who do better on the marshall protocol are borderline  ms  and do better with the lower free calcium levels that go with lower vitamin D, however vitamin D has complex effects and is also a strong anti-ms factor which would show in the very partial and mixed success of the marshall protocol   study


the retina can burn through large amounts of vitamin A and various antioxidants in bright sunlight, conservation of these may be a factor behind the marshall protocols avoidance of sunlight, sun on the skin can be quite immune suppressing short term as well


i agree with marshalls eschewance of steriods, the medical dogma is that inflammation is usually a stand alone issue of immune system over-reaction, but my view is it is a combination of immune system incompedence and underlying infection


its interesting in the quote below that the arthritic inflammation is due to ongoing infection


young mice though i bet :o)


“ The  researchers  used one group of mice genetically engineered not to have NK T cells, while the control group had the cells

The mice that didn't have NK T cells were not as capable of clearing the (Lyme disease) bacteria, and they developed a chronic arthritis, while the control mice did not

the results were quite marked,You could see under the microscope more numerous inflammatory cells in the joints of the mice that lacked the NK T cells weeks after infection  ”



--------------------------------------------------

 

CO-CIRCULATION OF MULTIPLE CLADE VARIANTS



when one gets hit immediately after exposure, that must be a clade variant, one has the basic immunity but the virus still gets away a bit and needs knocking back, viral shedders will mutate so the clade variants slip past the intial immune reponse better


Would explain why its just one constant viral nightmare now and air- conditioned malls and houses might be bad as well


These viruses don't live as long on warm surfaces, colder climates are more infective which is why tasmania might be so bad in summer from the cruise ships.


  study



--------------------------------------------------

 

WHY FISH OIL MAY BE SO STRONGLY PROMOTING OF VIRAL INFECTION



basically its supplying rate limited lipids that are needed for replicating


article      study



--------------------------------------------------

 

SUN ON SKIN BREAKING VIRAL AND PARASITICAL STEALTH



the influenza virus has stealth study


" the influenza A virus has evolved by incorporating Non-structural protein 1 (NS1) into its genome to escape the RIG-I alarm system"


this is a bit uncertain but i am sure that the violet/blue/green light in sunlight can penetrate the skins and veins enough to free up a few proteins off the surfaces of viruses and parasites facilitating immune system recognition of them, hence helping break stealth


sun angles below 55º are less effective for this



---------------------------------------

 

SHINGLES



heating my bare back or chest in front of a woodheater glass window activates  “ heat shock proteins ”  which stimulate the immune system and doing this on a regular basis i found stops any shingles outbreaks from occurring !


you get the skin hot for as long as you can hold there, but not so hot as to be burnt !


i think this is why people do saunas in a cold climate, to activate the heat shock proteins !


significant sun exposure on areas prone to outbreaks seem to cause outbreaks through immune suppression, though whole body exposure to the sun may help promote heat shock proteins and shingles resistance !


the issue of UVB, vitamin D and shingles is complex and actually broadband UVB or sun on body may be of significant utility in reducing  postherpetic neuralgia ,  i have used my homemade broadband UVB lamp to great effect for this !


the new shingrix vaccine is supposed to be very effective


the problem with posttherpetic neuralgia is the nerves get damaged and nerve recovery is difficult when you are older, my experience is that quality goat’s milk has nerve growth factors  (i presume cow’s milk would also be beneficial) ,  especially in spring and also whole body midday sun exposure is of benefit


“ the gene  piezo2  encodes a mechanosensitive protein which produces electrical nerve signals in response to changes in cell shape, such as when skin cells and neurons of the hand are pressed against a table, but also controls  tactile allodynia  after a skin injury ”


________________



interstingly and i had this happen to me is that trauma to the hand or wrist can  induct  a shingles outbreak in the relevant dermatome


the symptoms i had were tendonitis and dysaesthesia and it had me mystified as to the cause until i got a couple of small outbreaks in the C6 (Lee) dermatome on the arm


________________



shingles/chicken pox is the only recognized human virus able to invade cerebral arteries.


adults with shingles were about 30 percent more likely to have a stroke


the risk is even greater when the infection involved the eyes.   study 1   study 2


if the varicella-zoster virus is  reactivated  in the ophthalmic division of the trigeminal nerve then uveitis and mild glaucoma is symptomatic, any medications like duloxetine that have a risk of glaucoma are contraindicated


“ shingles patients are infectious  (resulting in chickenpox),  both from virus in the lesions and in some instances the nose and throat. ”    dermnet


the presentation of shingles can be variable


some cold/flu viruses and/or concomitant bacterial infections can  reactivate  shingles and herpes by reducing the populations of  T cells  keeping these viruses under control


also i think some  viral shedders  can shed slightly mutated forms of the virus which can activate shingles in others !


i don't think the reactivation of the chickenpox virus into shingles is any different from  EBV


that is, viral microRNA silencing reproduction of the virus until a state of weakened immunity and perhaps other factors arises


i think my latent chicken pox  (also known as the varicella zoster and herpes zoster virus)  infection is in the T1, C7 and C8  dermatome  regions in the dorsal ganglia on the spine and in fact i have always had an itch on my back in this region and since i have been putting zinc nappy rash cream on it and scraping it in with my fingernails  (to get the zinc nanoparticles in deeper to excite an immune response so keeping the microRNA silencing in place)  i have had no shingles outbreaks at all!


rephrasing that :


my shingles is sourced in the T1, C7 and C8 dermatome regions in the dorsal ganglia on the spine and in fact i have always had an itch on my back in this region and since i have been putting zinc nappy rash cream on and near the relevant vertebrae and scraping it in with my fingernails  (to get the zinc nanoparticles in deeper to excite an immune response so keeping the microRNA silencing in place)  i have had no shingles outbreaks at all if i remember to do it !


people will have different involved dermatomes and there is disagreement over different maps, i have used the designation of keegan and garrett's system, but in fact i feel figure 6 in  this paper  may be more accurate and perhaps there is also considerable person to person variation anyway


high humidity is an important stress factor in bringing on a shingles outbreak !


i presume that shingles is like herpes with a very low  initial ingress  of the virus from the nerves into surrounding cells


a friend who had a cyst very near the C6 vertebrae removed has had no more shingles in that dermatome !


shingles in those naturally infected with the wild virus is more prevalent now due to the decline of circulating live chickenpox virus from a fair portion of the population having vaccine immunity


ongoing natural exposure to the chicken pox/varicella virus is necessary for suppressing shingles in the naturally infected


for those with the varicella vacine and no wild type infection, shingles is not such an issue


the varicella vaccine virus almost eliminates shingles in children  study


naturally acquired chickenpox gives protection against some types of brain tumour while the vaccine may not


i think actually you have to get the varicella vaccine as a child now because if you get it naturally you may be bedevilled by shingles in later life because there is so little natural infection around to keep the immune system primed against the varicella/herpes zoster !


big increases in shingles in those naturally infected by chicken pox because there is not enough live virus around now, is an emerging health issue


___________________



topical colloidal silver seems initially effective for small areas


a limit on its use may be the area since large areas would result in a lot of silver being absorbed and silver is neurologically toxic, however colloidal silver followed by curaderm/bec5 work quite well !


colloidal sliver placed an hour or do after HP also seems to do something !


topical zinc cream is sorta ok but slow on lesions, however it is very effective scratched into the skin on the spinal dermatome  (and the back heated with infrared)  as an immune stimulant to prevent shingles outbreaks


daktozin may be better for this purpose than nappy rash zinc cream because it has less moisture barrier in, however i use resolve nappy rash cream on the spinal dermatome


iodine tincture is prophylactic if put on potential outbreak spots about once every six days in quiescent periods, there is a sorta right interval for doing this, applied too frequently it seems to induct shingles if anything !


the betadine  "sore throat gargle"  which is a povidone iodine seems to be extremely effective put on actual pustules as soon as they occur !


food grade  35%  hydrogen peroxide  works very well, forming a crust within a day, but only for small skin areas, it is painful and can induce a temporary oestoearthritis in your weakest spots if too much is used or too often


one of the  best  combinations is topical iodine tincture on any spots that you suspect followed by topical food grade  35%  hydrogen peroxide about 2 ? hours later and maybe HP again another 4 hours later again


vitamin A  may also be necessary


it may also be necessary to let the shingles  “mature”  to a certain point before applying the HP to ensure there is enough virus around for the HP to form antigens from


there is also such a thing as too frequent an application of topical iodine


lamisil  (turbofine hydrochloride)  is not effective, though canesten  (clotrimazole)  may be useful


if a usual area of intial outbreak is small, rubbing some topical iodine tincture on when it's in remission seems to be effective in preventing outbreaks


large areas run into problems with too much iodine being absorbed


outbreaks are stimulated to occur and made worse by direct sun on the area of outbreak  (not sun exposure on areas not susceptible to outbreak)


shingles can occur on the hand and other body parts induced by humidity and ultraviolet, especially UVA from sun on the hands through the windscreen when driving.


i wonder if this is why people used to wear driving gloves ?


high  intraocular pressure  may be a distingushing characteristic of zoster compared to the other herpes viruses


___________________



when the immune system is very supressed you can get what is called disseminated shingles


that is, it ranges across the dermatomes more


for example AIDS, the estrogen drop with menopause  ( HRT )  or immune supressing drugs or supplements


basically if it's shingles it will be occurring in dermatome patterns


infection across two or more adjacent dermatomes may not be unusual and since the dermatome maps are not 100% accurate it will be diffcult to tell sometimes which dermatomes are infected


i think the difference between mild shingles and full blown like the whole back, is the virus has crossed into all or a fair portion of the dermatomes


from what i have seen with me the different dermatomes are like a line, you can see the shingles stop at the boundary if it is close to it


it's a nasty suprise to see an outbreak in a new spot but then i have found you can find it is on an existing infected dermatome


if you get shingles, it may pay to keep a file and record the exact postion of each spot and work out the dermatomes


i think over the years the outbreaks will pretty well occur over the whole infected dermatome




the difference between herpes simplex 1 and 2 and varicella-zoster is the ganglia they prefer giving rise to outbreaks in their typical areas


“ HSV-1 usually establishes latency in the trigeminal ganglion, a collection of nerve cells near the ear. From there, it tends to recur on the lower lip or face. HSV-2 usually sets up residence in the sacral ganglion at the base of the spine. From there, it recurs in the genital area ”


varicella - zoster is much more wide ranging tho avoiding the ganglia preferred by herpes simplex which is one basis for differential diagnosis


ganglia in which varicella zoster can establish latency are the geniculate ganglion and peripheral ganglia of cranial nerves VIII, IX and X; upper dorsal root ganglia, opthalomic ganglia



and


those


covering the


palmar and dorsal digital dermatomes


and


all the trunk and most leg dermatomes


pretty well


everywhere


actually




something that might help with shingles is to work out what dermatones the shingles are in and identify the vertebrae that is the source of the dermatome and put some 35% hydrogen peroxide on the skin on that vertebrae


just something that might help in theory, haven't tried the hp on the dermatome like that


but i am using nappy rash zinc cream scratched into the skin on that vertebrae and found it very preventative of outbreaks as zinc is an immune stimulant


basically you are just trying to induct some immune stimulation action in the area that the herpes zoster virus is holed up in


germanium ,  mk-7 and vitamin A are immune stimulatory against viruses !



------------------------------------

 

THE PREFERABILITY OF HOMESCHOOLING



over the years i have just given up on parents and children with some degree of immune system impairment because the schools are soo crucifying virally, basically unless they are being homeschooled they do not survive


i understand the issues with parents working and in fact it's a political issue and one of the drivers for the government mandated vaccine program, that women have to work to support the hugely bloated bureaucracy and pension plans


basically the cost of running the state is so big that government would collapse without women working, that's why you get such a huge resistance by the state to notions that vaccines aren't perfect since for example children with chickenpox need homecare


tho i think on balance the varicella vaccine is well worth getting as a child !



---------------------------------------

 

NOROVIRUS



noroviruses take up residence in  ‘ tuft ’  cells in the small intestine villi and are spread by vomit, contact with fecal matter and breathing the exhaled air of an infected person


“ People infected with norovirus are contagious from the moment they begin feeling ill to at least 3 days after recovery. Some people may be contagious for as long as 2 weeks after recovery ” 


it can be extraodinarily fast acting, 12 to 19 hours after exposure


pasturized lemon juice, neat for severe and diluted for milder later stages helps


also possibly two candex and a no fenol mixed with water an hour to several hours before the lemon juice


mycel A/vitamin A works well !


crusie ships in port are a very bad source of norovirus !


more of my  advice  !









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